Aligned and Thriving Podcast | Strategies for Work Life Balance

How Being Your Own Boss Supports Work-life Balance?

February 19, 2024 Judith Bowtell | Career Development for Achieving Work-Life Balance Episode 8
How Being Your Own Boss Supports Work-life Balance?
Aligned and Thriving Podcast | Strategies for Work Life Balance
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Aligned and Thriving Podcast | Strategies for Work Life Balance
How Being Your Own Boss Supports Work-life Balance?
Feb 19, 2024 Episode 8
Judith Bowtell | Career Development for Achieving Work-Life Balance

Send us your questions.

In this episode, host Judith Bowtell, a former burnt-out executive turned creative career and leadership development coach, is joined by Michele Hayes, a clarity and confidence coach. The two speakers, who have known each other since high school, discuss the topic of how being your own boss supports work-life balance. They share their personal and professional experiences in the context of this theme.

Podcast Episode Summary

  • Judith Bowtell and Michele Hayes, former high school friends, delve into the concept of work-life balance and its relevance in today's fast-paced world.
  • They explore the idea that work-life balance is not about perfection but rather about finding joy and fulfilment in everyday work.
  • Michele shares her journey from teaching to coaching and how she found her passion in helping individuals unlock their full potential and achieve their goals with clarity and conviction.
  • The discussion touches on the influence of upbringing and societal norms on one's perception of work and life, highlighting the need to challenge traditional beliefs and find one's unique path to success.
  • Michele explains the satisfaction she gets from seeing her clients gain clarity, confidence and ability to articulate their visions.

Michele Hayes website:
Facebook Page:

Here's a link to my new low ticket offer for people starting out:


My main group is:


Connect with Judith Bowtell on Facebook:
To learn more about how we can work together:

Come say hi on:
Let’s be Instagram friends:
Let’s stay connected on:

Don't forget to rate, review, or drop your questions on:

Apple podcast


Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Send us your questions.

In this episode, host Judith Bowtell, a former burnt-out executive turned creative career and leadership development coach, is joined by Michele Hayes, a clarity and confidence coach. The two speakers, who have known each other since high school, discuss the topic of how being your own boss supports work-life balance. They share their personal and professional experiences in the context of this theme.

Podcast Episode Summary

  • Judith Bowtell and Michele Hayes, former high school friends, delve into the concept of work-life balance and its relevance in today's fast-paced world.
  • They explore the idea that work-life balance is not about perfection but rather about finding joy and fulfilment in everyday work.
  • Michele shares her journey from teaching to coaching and how she found her passion in helping individuals unlock their full potential and achieve their goals with clarity and conviction.
  • The discussion touches on the influence of upbringing and societal norms on one's perception of work and life, highlighting the need to challenge traditional beliefs and find one's unique path to success.
  • Michele explains the satisfaction she gets from seeing her clients gain clarity, confidence and ability to articulate their visions.

Michele Hayes website:
Facebook Page:

Here's a link to my new low ticket offer for people starting out:


My main group is:


Connect with Judith Bowtell on Facebook:
To learn more about how we can work together:

Come say hi on:
Let’s be Instagram friends:
Let’s stay connected on:

Don't forget to rate, review, or drop your questions on:

Apple podcast


Episode 8 - How being your own boss supports work-life balance?

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Aligned and Thriving Podcast, the best place to get the support you need to turn your working life from a struggle to a success. I'm your host, Judith Bowtell, and I'm a former burnt out executive and eventually reinvented herself as a creative career and leadership development coach.

[00:00:21] This show is for anyone who is struggling with having time for yourself amongst work, family, caring for others, medical issues, community needs, and even the work of staying in touch in a digital age. So this is for anyone who has seen the cracks in their life and wants to turn things around. 

[00:00:37] Hello everybody, it's Judith Bowtell and I'm here with a special guest today, who is Michele Hayes, a clarity and confidence coach. Now, I don't know about you, but I can always do with a little bit more clarity and confidence in my life. So I'm really looking forward to hearing from Michele. And today we're gonna be talking about how being your own boss. Supports work life balance, or does it? That's the question we have before us today. So welcome, Michele.

[00:01:07] Thank you, Judith. Great to be here. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:10] You're very, very welcome. Okay. As always, I always give full transparency, so I'm going to say that Michele is another old friend of mine, probably the one I've known the longest in this podcast series, in that we went to school together. We former students of Kilbara high school, which doesn't exist anymore. So don't bother looking it up, but it was a wonderful school in some ways and not so great in other ways, but it did form some very lasting friendships for which I'm very grateful. And I guess I'm also very grateful to the old Facebook for allowing us to continue those friendships over time and over geographic distance. And as our lives change and develop. So let me introduce you to Michele. Michele is a Clarity, Confidence and Internationally Certified Results Coach who specialises in helping individuals unlock their full potential and achieve their goals with clarity and conviction. With over 30 years of experience in education and the attainment of two master's degrees, she brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to her coaching practice. Her journey into coaching began in the online world in 2019, and in 2022, she transitioned from coaching teachers to empowering individuals in public speaking. However, it wasn't long before she recognised the profound need for clarity in communication and messaging across various platforms. This realisation led her to shift her focus towards supporting people in creating clear and concise messages and connecting with their ideal clients effectively. And Michele describes herself as passionate about guiding her clients through this transformative experience and helping them articulate their visions and empowering them to confidently communicate their message to the world. Wow. That is a bio and a half. Let's kick off the discussion and we'll pull out more about how this transformation occurred for you. And also what it means you're bringing to your clients. But let's, let's start with something simple. What have you done lately to improve your work life balance?

[00:03:14] First of all for disclosure as we we're chatting earlier. I'm not actually a big believer in work life balance. In fact what I have discovered, I guess, probably particularly over lockdowns in Melbourne is that there was so much pressure on people to get it right, this constant talk about and then we went from buzzing around, running around, trying to do everything to kind of almost doing nothing all of the time. And then everyone kind of reassessed all these kinds of things. And I do remember a speaker at an International Women's Day event that I was at talking to a bunch of young teenage girls. And she said we get told all the time, girls can do anything, girls can do everything, girls can do everything. And she said, and the caveat to that is not all at once. Now that's over 10 years ago and it's probably been percolating in the back of my mind for a while because I think there's a lot of pressure on women in particular to get it all right. And so this work life balance thing is this constant thing of, you've got to be on the top of your game at everything, including relaxing. And I think that that's just a lot of pressure. So for me probably I would be down the workaholic end of the scale as opposed to the unmotivated end. But, I do think that if you create fulfilling work for yourselves, then you get to bring joy into every day. I guess that's a version of work life balance, so that's a really long winded answer, but essentially because I just want to explain some context so for me, doing what I do and what I love. actually scheduling things really clearly in my calendar is probably my number one saviour, for want of a better word.

[00:04:59] Yeah,

[00:05:00] Fantastic. Yeah, I get that entirely and some thing about this podcast is to explore all takes on what work life balance is. Yeah. I love that you said it's not a thing to get perfect. It's a way of organising your life, one of the principles in that you're doing something that you love in your work. So yeah, it is a take on work life balance. I'm looking forward to diving into this a bit more then. So, can we just step back a bit, and when you were a kid, what did you learn about work and life and being employed or having a job? What are some things you learned?

[00:05:36] I learnt completely the opposite to the way I think As I suspect most people who were teenagers in the 80s did. We were conditioned, as you would know from our fabulous school, that we're conditioned to become teachers and secretaries, but ultimately mothers and wives. And I really truly believed, it's quite naive when I think about it now, but that I would become a teacher, which I did. But that it would only ever be a short term thing until I was a full time mother and wife and stay at home mother. So I didn't actually think beyond becoming a role, but it was never, I was never a career path. And you know, career girls were drawing up prunes and whatever and all this sort of stuff. And it was pretty funny. Having said that work ethic was definitely drilled into me. I mean, my parents, well, my dad went back to study teaching at 34 with six kids and 18 percent interest rates. Sooo, my parents worked pretty hard. They got up six mornings a week and did a 4. 30am, or did a 5am paper round, got up at 4. 30, 5am paper round six mornings a week. Mum worked full time in the city as well. And then they both worked on Saturdays and public holidays in a casual job. So I was very much brought up in the harder you work, the more money you bring in, the more things you can do. And I mean, essentially, if you want to make money, you either have to sell something or you have to earn it. So, so it's not completely wrong. And also this concept of earning downtime. So in year 12 in particular, which was my most social year of my life it was well, if you've got something on a Saturday night, then you need to do all your study on Saturday and you need to do your room and do the stuff around the house. You've got to earn the fun and then you've also got to pay for it somehow.

[00:07:21] yeah, yeah. This is all really familiar. possibly the only difference is I was the youngest in my family of four. But the parental messages are very clear. I think the only thing is that as the youngest, I got a lot more leniency. In the family era, by the time they were raising their fourth teenager, my parents were really like just go out, but, you know, try and get home in a reasonable time and, you know, like a little bit more a little bit more the boundaries were a little bit more lax for me, I would say, than my siblings, when things were tighter. Yes. Now, so are you the eldest?

[00:08:01] I'm the eldest of six.

[00:08:02] Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:03] I need to report in whenever I got home and all that sort of stuff.

[00:08:06] Oh, yeah,

[00:08:07] you know, to be fair, my parents did the best job that they could do with the knowledge that they had at the time and they were juggling a lot. So no kind of recriminations or anything. It's just they learnt from their parents and society around them and like we do. And so she'll continue. Hmm.

[00:08:25] But it is so true that actually, although they're not wrong, as you said, the things about the harder you work, the more you should have, and the more you have, the more you can do. And yes, and that you earn your downtime. I think that is probably still in a lot of our backgrounds, that, in our generation anyway. And I'll, I'll suggest people, if you're interested in talking about sort of the ideas of Gen X, which I guess we'll dive into a bit more here, also listen to the podcast We talk about Gen X values with Marlo Newton, who's a fellow Melbourne girl who also the influences of her parenting and the things that she believed growing up and how they influenced her early career and how they're not so influential now.

[00:09:09] Hmm. Interesting. So how did these things support you when you started working? How did these ideas that you inherited from your parents and values support you?

[00:09:19] Well, I mean, I guess I had longevity in my career, so that certainly contributed to that. It added to my resilience in that, I didn't fall down at the first hurdle. I definitely changed. Schools quite often, which was a, I learned very early on that actually, and I guess it played into it actually was on a teaching round that someone I was learning from was mentoring me had been in the same school for her entire career and in fact in the same year level. And it taught me a lot about what I did not want to be in the identity of a teacher. And so I formulated this belief, which I still hold to be true, that a complacent teacher is a bad teacher. I think it's more true now than it was then. And so I didn't stay in schools for more, the longest I ever stayed in a school was five years because I was always about getting fresh and innovative and so whilst a lot of the work was familiar, I was always interested in my efforts, I guess, coming into fruition and coming up for challenges and so it definitely influenced all of those kind of decisions for sure,

[00:10:23] Great. Yeah. Resilience also came through in what Marlo was talking about as one of the values of Gen X is that we do seem to have a good development of resilience. The other thing was humour. We use humour quite a bit and what was the word? It's not disrespect of authority, but not totally obeying authority too. I haven't quite got my language working right here. But yeah, that sort of idea that, Yeah, authority is there, yes, yes, yes, but there's a bit of a, you know. Bit of a cheek to the authority as well. Do you think that was part of your life as a teacher? 

[00:10:58] Definitely not the last bit,

[00:10:59] yeah.

[00:11:00] I'm a massive rule follower but having said that, that is also coupled with there's a certain defiance. There certainly was a rebellion hidden in there because of the structure of the world, the way, I mean, really, actually, the ages were a golden period, we just didn't know. We really didn't know, we certainly, we were teenagers, our brains weren't formed, we didn't take it advantage of it properly, probably. But yeah, no, I'm a rule follower, and so I think there was always a lot of pressure to do it right and follow the rules and do the right thing. That, of course, then caused internal conflict. For me when my values were challenged by the person in authority having a different approach to me. So as an adult, particularly in my late 30s, early 40s, that started to present some problems.

[00:11:49] That is such an interesting pattern. I see that coming up in my clients a lot, that they come feeling stuck, but it actually, it's not necessarily stuck. It's this conflict of values coming through and what really worked in your 20s. perfectly gets really uncomfortable in your 40s and something needs to change. So, I guess this is where it's time for us to perhaps look at some of those challenges when you came into this big change in your working life. So, do you want to tell us a bit about what you were being challenged by and what you were trying to do to fix that from your teaching days. What were some of the signs for you that you needed to change from teaching? 

[00:12:32] I had held a long belief. That's probably not weirded very well, but I had a belief for a while that again, going back to the complacent teacher, being a bad teacher thing, I was never in it for racking up the years. I was always, I will do this for as long as I am vibrant, passionate, and the second that I hate it, I've been there too long, and I don't want to get to that point before I exit. And the average age of teachers in Australia is 47, which is something I learnt during the pandemic. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just you could build a whole podcast around that if you wanted to. But I, and things are different now because a lot of people are coming back in who've had a break and they're coming back in, but I didn't want to be one of those people that I would, and we had some at our school, I would have said we're in what I call the retirement holding yard. I'll just do another 18 months till I can get my superannuation and really shouldn't be teaching. And really, we definitely had a few of those in our school experience. And you could probably picture them as well. Not to say that an older person can't be vibrant and amazing and interesting and contribute enormously. I'm not saying that for a moment. But I never wanted to be that person rocking up for the sake of rocking up. I, I, passion is important to me. Living my life with purpose is important. And I guess subconsciously, I was always looking for an avenue about what's going to happen next. What's the next phase going to be? I had no idea what it was going to look like. And I had also done a bit of study along the way. So once you do any kind of postgraduate study or any study you broaden your thinking and you see different perspectives of the world and then you can't kind of unknown what you know then. So there was definitely an element of that. And they

[00:14:25] Because you said you've got two master's degrees. Are they both in education, or are they?

[00:14:30] They are. So my first was my passion project, which was a thesis about children's choirs, and their perspective, children's perspective, because there was very little around about what the children said. What's bad adults imposing? And that's been a recurring theme in my life. And not much about what are the kids saying? Let's ask them. So that was what I did it about. And then my second was not a thesis so by coursework, which was in student well being.

[00:14:53] Right.

[00:14:54] So another passion. So same there with children, obviously. So that's. Yeah, they both contributed to my work enormously.

[00:15:02] Yeah. But I can imagine bringing quite different perspectives to what you would have learned as a graduate or an undergraduate. Yeah, yeah, the thinking, I mean, I don't think the student well being was a phrase that popped up very much in.

[00:15:18] Not, well, no, it was called welfare for a while, but that has kind of quite a loaded connotation to the word. Wellbeing is a vastly different thing when you think about that word as opposed to welfare.

[00:15:32] yeah. So just as a recap, you were feeling you didn't want to hit the point where you did not like going to work. So you were actively aware this could happen. And so what was the point where, or the opportunity or what happened that you went, Okay, going to go, going to change.

[00:15:50] I'm mad for professional development and going off and learning new tips and tricks and skills, even if it's just a one day thing. And I went and did this terrific thing called, Play as a Mate, which is amazing, which is well, it was about building empathy, actually, in the classroom. And I know I started to do that. And then one of my colleagues was involved in a program, which was essentially a coaching model. I didn't know what any of this world was at all. So it was all very wide eyed and what's this exciting thing. And so essentially what he did was go into Catholic schools and run a well being program the banner of the Catholic faith and work in a Catholic school, obviously. So he was moving interstate and needed someone to step in and take over. So I actually sort of bought the whole kind of thing from him and that's where I started. So that was my big leap. It was just before I turn 50. Massive big turning point year. It's kind of like, well, if you can't do it when you're 50, you're not going to do it.

[00:16:50] Yeah. Yes.

[00:16:52] wrong, but that's how I thought. So yeah, it all, and cause my birthday's in November. So it was very nice. It was turn 50, finish the school year and launch into the next phase.

[00:17:03] Right. Which was to run this wellbeing program within schools.

[00:17:08] Yes. Yes. So that was. Yeah, that was a starting point.

[00:17:13] All right. So this was when you became the boss.

[00:17:16] Well, sort of.

[00:17:17] Ah, okay. So what? Are you happy to tell us what sort of

[00:17:21] Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, look, I mean, I'm not going to spend thousands of hours telling you all the details, but essentially I didn't have complete autonomy over it. So lots of politics, lots of players involved, and it actually felt very familiar. From being in teaching and I thought, you know, there are bits that I had some control over. And I think the most significant thing was that the material wasn't my own.

[00:17:48] Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:49] So there was a creativity part missing for me coming from a music performing background that was missing. Which is not a slight, it's a terrific program. As it turns out, it would have shut down in 2020 anyway. So I would have, would have changed regardless. So that was when then so the guy that I'd bought this from mentioned something about passive income because he had authored one of the books that they used, and I'm like, passive income? What is this? I'd only heard about that or thought about that in the context of investment properties. I didn't even know it was a thing. So that, which again is amusing to me now. So I went to Google, as, as

[00:18:30] As you do. Yeah.

[00:18:32] I went, oh, wow. And that then led to my first big thing about thinking of the world of, I didn't even call it coaching then, I called myself a consultant,

[00:18:42] Yeah.

[00:18:42] Because I wasn't a coach. And there were a couple there in the US who had made their annual income in a month.

[00:18:50] Yeah.

[00:18:50] doing something online. I went, I think I want a piece of that pie. Thank you very much. That began the process online. Really?

[00:18:59] And that was when 2019, 2020, that was when all this became quite big and became quite an attainable or at least accessible pathway for people. Whether it's, you actually could achieve your outcomes, that's a different thing. But the platforms were evolving, the pathways, the training was there, it was, models were there, you could see other people doing it, et cetera. So I think, yes, there was something definitely happened. Probably accelerated by pandemic and lockdown because everyone was then going, I'm bored out of my brain. Let me do something. And so demand for online learning accelerated. And yeah, yeah. Yeah, a really interesting time to be in this space. It's so fascinating though, but in everything you've been saying, I've been hearing values come popping out all the way, the passion, the creativity and autonomy. There's three so far that I'm hearing has supported you and sort of shaped you and motivated you to do this work. Now that you're coming into this next phase of clarity and conviction, clarity and confidence, what shifted you to work there? What happened from working with teachers to working with people in business?

[00:20:11] Working with teachers was the default position because it was, I thought all I knew. And so that was about my own self confidence and my own credibility is probably another value. So I was about having the credibility that people would accept. Not that I didn't challenge that because then of course I had colleagues and, and there was a thing about showing up online and how do I then go public and say I'm doing this when so many of my colleagues are friends with me on social media. And there was a massive thing about being judged but what I found over the process of working with a few different coaches in that time, including the one where we first met, who was a very successful Australian business owner is I just couldn't quite pinpoint what it was, number one, that I wanted to do exactly.

[00:20:59] Number two, who I wanted to help. Precisely.

[00:21:04] And most importantly, number three, how did I explain it in a succinct way?

[00:21:09] And that was a struggle for the best part of five years. One or more elements of that. And as it turns out, it's probably the most common problem, apart from making money that people struggle with.

[00:21:22] I agree. Totally. I, when I started out coaching one of my clients said to me don't worry about your niche because your niche will find you. And I thought that was interesting because everybody at that time was going, no, you need a niche. You need a niche. You need a niche. And I think it took me quite a while to work out who my niche is. And it's kind of just the people who turned up at my door, but also in setting up this podcast. But it was finally when I had some support to help me work through all my thoughts to come up with the title and a concept. And all of a sudden things became so much easier.

[00:21:57] Yes.

[00:21:58] It wasn't perfect. It wasn't necessarily one. Actually the title did make me go. Like, I honestly, after spending months thinking about a title the producer of this program, who is Charmaine Morales, She's wonderful. And she came up with one. I went, oh, that one, she came up with a list of 10. I went, oh, that one, Aligned and Thriving. And she was like, oh, I thought we're going to spend a few weeks on that. And I went, no, no, no, that's the one I want. And so it did all sort of fall into place very easily. But I was also like, it's not perfect, but it calls to me and I can work with it. So let's go with it.

[00:22:32] I love it. As soon as I saw it, I went, yes, that's it.

[00:22:36] Yeah. Yeah. So I can imagine working with people to get to that aha moment must be hugely satisfying.

[00:22:43] Oh my goodness. The, one downside to teaching, which is a wonderful profession, and I'm very glad I did it for so long is that there's not a lot of instant gratification in it. The moments are pretty rare work I do it doesn't all happen in a few seconds. It can be weeks of work, but it's a much shorter process than, for example, teaching. And to see people move from doubting themselves, being overwhelmed, being confused, feeling like they've tried everything and failed, feeling like there's something wrong with them. These are the sorts of things I hear all the time. Being told as I was, Oh, I love what you're doing. Your posts are so lovely. What do you do again? To the usual response of, I can't believe it's this easy, I can't believe it's this simple, oh my gosh. I have a client, for example, who's been working on it for 11 years. And she said, for the first time it feels easy. Now that's, I wish I hadn't had to spend 11 years, but it's very gratifying to be able to help people give themselves that gift.

[00:23:43] Yes, yes, yes. When you do have to try and explain it to people, when you don't have your picture, you're not confident in it, it holds you back. It really does hold you back. And the other thing is though, it's so much easier to see it in somebody else than yourself.

[00:23:58] Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

[00:24:02] Sometimes have to hold yourself back from saying to somebody on day one, this is actually what you're doing, to allow them to do their own process?

[00:24:11] Yes. And that also happened with me. I mean, I was working with public speaking and yet as a side thing to get sort of testimonials and building credibility, I was helping other people because their messages were so obvious to me. And then my coach said to me, why are you doing the public speaking then? If the market's telling you they want this and you're good at it, then why aren't you doing that? She said, ironically, you're not being clear. And I went, because it was, you know, a millimetre from my nose and I didn't see it. And that is really, really common.

[00:24:42] Yeah, that's so cool. So cool and I really relate to it, that feeling when people say, well, why don't you just do this? And you go, oh, yeah, I could. Yes, it's, it's Charmaine gave me the title. I went, oh, yeah, that's exactly what I want to do it. And all my fluff just went out the window.

[00:24:58] Yes.

[00:24:59] So when did you realize that you could be the boss this time? Do you believe you now are the boss?

[00:25:04] Oh, totally.

[00:25:05] Oh, excellent. So what did you have to give up from your old beliefs to allow you to go, Oh, I'm totally boss. What happened there?

[00:25:14] I had to let go of a couple of things that the stable regular income is not an easy thing to let go of. And I don't recommend people just simply flick over, flip the switch. I would definitely say straddle the two until you can manage it. So that was definitely challenging. There are people who model doing things a certain way. So they say, if you want to be successful, you have to get up at 4. 30 in the morning every morning and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, for me, I hear 4. 30 in the morning and I'm taking back to my parents in the 1980s doing that with paper round. So I was like, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. Now, strangely enough, being in my towards the mid to late part of my fifties, I wake up early anyway. So I get to choose. I get to go for a walk in the morning. I get to do that. I get to sit and journal. I get to have a slow cup of coffee. Any teachers who are listening would be familiar with the fact that you rarely finish coffee and you can't go to the bathroom anytime you want. I get to do that. I get to schedule my day in a way that works for me. And yes, at times it is hard work, but it's a different kind of hard work and it's hard work of my choosing.

[00:26:24] yes, yeah, yeah, 

[00:26:27] I was just saying the other aspect is I also get to choose who I work with.

[00:26:30] Yes,

[00:26:32] That's a bonus.

[00:26:34] That is a bonus. Tell us what that gives to you in terms of work life balance, being able to choose who you work with.

[00:26:42] Well, it just means that my days are filled with conversations that stimulate me that support me. It's not an echo chamber. I don't want to kind of give off that impression. It's not like there's no conflict. Like I just had someone send me a spammy DM telling me, oh, you know, they liked it because they liked my sarcastic comment I wrote on someone. I'm like, You've completely missed the point about me. What's this? And it's okay because I don't want to work with you because you're not heart centred. I'm like, what? So it's not like you never have unpleasantness. But I get to work with people who understand me and I don't have to convince them to not that I don't, I'm not looking for people to kind of worship me or idolise me or even necessarily model me or I can certainly teach them some things, but I'm very much about empowerment and the people who come to me are very motivated and want something different. But walking that path together and ideally, and this is the teacher and me coming out, ideally my clients will actually go and do better than me,

[00:27:43] That's kind a big goal.

[00:27:46] I want to go and have great successes that are beyond what I do.

[00:27:50] Yes, yes, absolutely. I love what you're saying about you work with people who are motivated. I've had a conversation with another coach who, and as I say more values coming out, empowerment empowering other people really important. And I guess success is in there too, but in supporting other people's success as well. I was talking to another coach about free consults, do you do them? Do you don't? And I said, well, I do do them, but I don't offer them to somebody necessary. I don't offer them. They're on my website. So if you find my website and you find the booking link and it's on the front page, it's not that hard. But if you find the booking link and you book into my system, it shows that you're willing enough to come along with me. With my way of working, I'm trying to say this in a way enough, like you've passed those first few tests to go, okay, you kind of are willing to go along with a system that may not be completely your choosing, but you're willing to do that. And I think that means we can work together. Now, what does that say about me? I'm a control freak possibly, but it's actually like my coaching won't work if you reject all the principles that we're working with it. And if you're totally totally oppositional, it's just not going to work. And I've had those situations. I'm sure you're from that situation. You just had to go working love. 

[00:29:11] Take your money 

[00:29:11] I think we can just, money and we'll see you later. But you're not going to change me. I develop and I learn and I'm always evolving in this process, but it's like, I know my process works.

[00:29:23] If you're willing to give it a chance, I'm sure it'll work for you. It's kind of like that little bit of if you sign up to the consult in the way I want you to sign up to the consult. It'll work. Yeah. And it's funny how you find those little tests of your client, your ideal clients to go, is this going to work or is this not going to work? It's those little nuances and coaching once you've been doing it for several years. I mean, I've been in the game 10 years. It's really interesting how you find the people that work for. You just go.

[00:29:55] And also, sometimes they surprise you where they come from and how they evolve.

[00:30:00] Yes, yes,

[00:30:01] And how you look? Oh

[00:30:02] Yeah, yeah. I just love the process. It's so interesting to see people change. I mean, last week I had Casey, who was a client of mine, I remember she was at a program I ran, and she said it was life changing, and it kind of got, oh, I feel really warm and fuzzy about that, but, in a way, yeah, it totally was, and she's going on and doing brilliant things, and it's such a satisfying to be able to partner with people as they go through that transformation. yeah, yeah. yeah. And look, I can say of clarity and confidence, they're so important to making your own way. Being a boss, being a boss, you do need both of those things. Yeah. So would you go back to the old way of?

[00:30:49] No.

[00:30:49] Okay. So since you're not going backwards, what's in your future? What's coming up next for you?

[00:30:55] I'm in a growth period right now. So it's funny, this comes up a lot with my clients in particular, is the scene in, they say, oh but I've been doing this, and I know I could be close but it's just, and that's that last little bit, and I reference the Shawshank Redemption, and I say if he hadn't crawled through this ridge, he, He wouldn't have got out. And it was so close at that point.

[00:31:17] Yeah.

[00:31:19] And there's a lot of that in this, and there's no right. Everything's done. I'm good now. I'm settled unless I guess you sell it and walk away and, and you're retired, which I can't even conceive of that concept to be honest. So for me I've got a number of things. happening. I've worked with people one on one and that is the most gratifying thing. And I do that and I do clarity sessions with them and it takes probably four to five to really kind of get it right, unless they've done a lot of work prior to it. So that's really gratifying and then they can go from there. Once they've got their message, people are generally flying, it's a foundation, they can build the rest of their house and off they go. I then also went and got myself a coaching qualification because credibility is so important to me. So Yeah, so I did, and that's an eight week rapid results program, it's actually what it's called. And that is the most fantastic thing, and guess what it's all about? Clarity. So, it doesn't have to necessarily be about messaging. But if mindset, according to Bob Proctor, mindsets, A 95 percent and strategies only 5%, I want to be able to give people both. So I now have that as well which is awesome and that supports my work. I have a brilliant mastermind which is invitation only and those were just soaring, they're amazing. And then I just launched a low ticket. Program, which is 7 subscription per month. Now, obviously, there's no coaching involved in there. Because I just simply don't have the time to, and hours to do the 7 now.

[00:32:46] But, basically what I teach, I've broken it down into sort of a do it for yourself course.

[00:32:50] Oh, great.

[00:32:51] But that's the next thing. I'm writing my book. And I'm also planning a retreat, or a couple of retreats. So there's a few things happening.

[00:32:58] Great. Great. And so this is all on your website. Where can people find out more?

[00:33:03] Yes, they can find this on my website which is and of course there's a story behind the name and once you check me out you'll find out more behind it. And I think you suspect you probably know part of why the name is the name. And then actually Facebook is the place where I am probably most present is probably the best way. My website is Do Not Expect Perfection but it's up there. So you can find me but you can definitely find me on Facebook, that's the easiest way. I have a public profile and there are links to my groups on there, so that's the easiest way to find me.

[00:33:35] And we'll have links to all of that in the show notes as well. So do check it out if you're interested in finding out more about Michelle's programs. I, I have not done it myself, but I've heard the testimonials and I believe in what she does as well. So I heartily recommend. You do have a look and the difference if you've been struggling with being able to do that elevator pitch or just answer what is it that you do and you're in this space of helping other people but it doesn't have a necessary a title just do it. The relief you will feel in having something clear, concise and that you're satisfied with, it's invaluable. So I don't know what you charge. It's worth every cent. Okay. So

[00:34:18] It's pretty reasonable and I actually end up saving people thousands in the long run. So, 

[00:34:22] You absolutely would. I mean, mistakes in business, it can be really expensive If you had some advice for the people out there that you'd like to share as final words, what would you like to share with them?

[00:34:37] About being your own boss?

[00:34:38] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:42] If the thoughts popped into your head, then your subconscious mind is talking to you and it will not go away. And Oprah always talks about it starts as a whisper and ends up as a slap up so at the head. So don't wait for, you know, some major health incident or some catastrophic life event. If it's there, listen to it. Start putting measures in place to make it happen. You don't have to go, don't fall for the myth you've got to go and spend, you know, 50 thousand, hundred thousand, on someone to make this happen. You can start gently, start building a process and yeah, just trust someone that aligns with your values. Really, it's probably. The biggest thing.

[00:35:22] Great. Thank you so much. Well, it's been wonderful having a chance to explore these ideas for with you. It's great speaking to other coaches cause you do realize that it's not just you but also you learn from each other. So it's been a fantastic conversation for me and I hope it is for our listeners too. Okay. So we'll sign off now and we'll see you all next week. Thanks, Michelle.

[00:35:45] Thank you, Judith.

Michele Hayes shares her perspective on work-life balance and the pressure on women to excel in every aspect of life.
Michele discusses her childhood conditioning regarding work and life, emphasising the pressure on women to excel in multiple roles.
Michele reflects on her career longevity, resilience, and the influence of her parents' work ethic on her professional life.
Michele talks about her belief that a complacent teacher is a bad teacher and the impact of this belief on her career decisions.
Michele discusses her passion project, which was a thesis about children's choirs and their perspective, emphasising the importance of considering children's viewpoints.
Michele first worked with teachers for credibility despite judgement.
She excelled at helping others clarify their messaging.
Michele shifted focus from public speaking to messaging clarity.
She gets satisfaction from seeing clients gain clarity and confidence.